crystal_story_iifandomcom-20200214-history
Talk:Bestiary
CS2 was updated to v 1.22 today, which included some monster renaming and bestiary cleanup. 2 monsters were removed (the ???'s # 106 and 107) I haven't been to the demon lair yet. If someone could update the numbers from 160 onwards. Bomphav (talk) 15:44, November 20, 2013 (UTC) The three enemies before Final, FInal, and... Final... were removed as well. I have the completed list but I'm too busy atm to place the numbers in. I'm sure someone else can. 01:08, November 21, 2013 (UTC) Wheeaboo I deleted the fourth Final and put in the higher numbers. 09:12, November 22, 2013 (UTC) Thanks! Bomphav (talk) 16:23, November 22, 2013 (UTC) Do you want to add an entry for Gold and SP dropped by a monster to the Bestiary template? I collected that info for most of the entries in v1.23, but I'm not sure if it's still the same in 1.30. 17:57, November 24, 2013 (UTC) On each monster page, there is a drops table for that monster. Gold and SP would be useful information there. Bomphav (talk) 20:31, November 24, 2013 (UTC) As of v. 1.31 the steal list of bosses may have been changed. It would be helpful if people could recheck previous stolen items as some things could have been added or removed. For Bat king I have been able to get a dice, but so far unable to get a circlet.Josejoejoey (talk) 13:59, November 28, 2013 (UTC) Heal Potions? Out of curiosity, are Heal Potion Vs even in the game? I haven't acquired one yet, was hoping to mix a few with Super Grenades and save my healer some work so she can spam her nukes instead. 20:07, November 28, 2013 (UTC) : I can confirm that Heal Potion V exists. It seems they can only be found on enemies and chests in dungeons on the isles i the middle of the world map (Sunken Ruins, Doom Lair, etc.). - OppaiKun (talk) 05:14, December 20, 2013 (UTC) Steal Reorganization Hi! I just realized something, I think the steals are arranged by area the monster is found in! I noticed how the green plains (below the small bridge that is below small village) "wolfs" called Kay-9 don't have anything to steal no matter how many times you steal them. While the "wolfs" ON the small birdge do have things to steal! So I think the montsers should be grouped by where they are found the bestiary (steal list) instead of just listed. So that we can know where to go to find specpific, um, genologys, of wolfs and the like to attack to get the right items from stealing. And such. As well as to be more arrcurate. 03:36, December 3, 2013 (UTC) Oh well I haven't comfirmed it for everything, maybe the kay-9 in the grassland is just a accident the maker didn't update? Should be checked out before changes are made I guess. 04:49, December 3, 2013 (UTC) :The steal list doubles as the beastiary so it makes sense to have it organized how the ingame beastiary is. All monsters of the same type (i.e. all Kay-9s) have the same steals whereas all the monsters of the same family (all "wolfs") can vary fairly widely in steals, though ingredients steals tend to stay the same or very similar. If you want to know what monsters you can find at a location check the pages in List of locations to find what monsters are there and then look at what they have to steal in the beastiary if the monsters still have redlinks. (Filling out some of those redlinked monsters would be awesome). If you are looking for a specific item try the wiki search to find pages where that item appears. Netan (talk) 06:05, December 3, 2013 (UTC) ::As many of the bosses have a steal table, we may need to change the table a bit to indicate which are bosses, as I have tried in #83 - #86. Akumaxx ws (talk) 13:46, December 15, 2013 (UTC) :I have no experience editing Wikia, so I'll just toss this here: fought King Slime today, and could steal an Evade Flask from the first part and a Cure Potion (I think, might've been a Heal I but I doubt it) from the second. Both of them only had the one item to steal. Dargon, in the evil cave, had nothing to steal at all. 14:05, December 15, 2013 (UTC) Multiple Skills Regarding enemies with multiple skills, such as Earth Golems and Succubi, who have more than two skills, the skills seem to get listed on the same line after the first skill. Recommend/Suggest changing this to either use commas to separate them, or using another method to make each skill appear on its own line. This would in turn apply to enemies with two skills as well. Any objections/alternative suggestions? L1ght5h0w (talk) 14:56, December 18, 2013 (UTC) :EDIT: My reason for this is that comma lists are difficult to read for some. Putting each skill on its own line would make things a bit easier to read. L1ght5h0w (talk) 15:32, December 18, 2013 (UTC) :I have actually found a different method which works perfectly, IMO. Check these two versions: :Old Bop (107) :New Bop (107) :This was achieved by changing the line: :|Skills =Lightning I, Fire I, Earth I, Water I :into: :|Skills = Lightning I Fire I Earth I Water I :L1ght5h0w (talk) 15:11, December 18, 2013 (UTC) ::I worked on setting up a new way to do skills in the Enemy Template. They are, using this new system, entered one at a time, each in a new field. They are then displayed with a link to an article for the skill and they have the image of the skill as well. The system functions using Template:Skill and Template:Skill/name fix, in addition to the enemy template. This new system would need to be added to each enemy article and would need a little bit more work to function fully, but it shouldn't be too difficult. it works by the user inputting the name of the skill, then the coding takes that skill finds what its article's name is and finds the image for it and outputs it. (The code being essentially a redirect list which must have each skill to be redirected added to it manually.) You can see it working on Earth Golem (32). Would this system be a good replacement? Rocketslime_1_1 (Message) 21:57,12/18/2013 (UTC) :::Looks pretty good. The only thing I might can think of being a problem is it maybe being a bit too bulky with the images, especially with enemies like Witch Rita, Koohii (177) and Koohii (178) who seem to have a ridiculous amount of skills. If there was a way to make the images for the skills a bit smaller, I think it would be perfect. Either way, it looks good, and nice idea about adding links to articles for the skills. L1ght5h0w (talk) 14:44, December 19, 2013 (UTC) :::I just tried this with Frog King (20) and find it works well, however, would there be a way to make it possible to choose the image it uses while editing the monster page instead of having to use redirects? Also, the images may be slightly difficult to get up, though there wouldn't be many of them, as most are reused for different skills (Flame I, Flame II, Fire Attack, Fire Wall I, etc). Just a couple of thoughts. L1ght5h0w (talk) 15:29, December 19, 2013 (UTC) :::Also, some enemy skills don't have a clear image, like Web on Spiderling. What would we do about those? L1ght5h0w (talk) 15:41, December 19, 2013 (UTC) ::::For images being too bulky, I can reduce the size of the images or I can make a dropdown box for them. The adding of redirects shouldn't be a big problem as long as we get the redirects set up in a reasonable time, then it is just a matter of inputting the names of the skills. For skills that don't have images we could have a default skill frame that is used in those cases. What do you think? Rocketslime_1_1 (Message) 19:51,12/19/2013 (UTC) :::::Sounds good. The only thing I was thinking with the redirects was from Wikipedia's manual of style and trying not to have to use redirects unless absolutely necessary. However, I know Wikia's are more lax in their guidelines, so this should work nicely. Nice job! L1ght5h0w (talk) 15:05, December 20, 2013 (UTC) Element Resistances Regarding element resistances on enemy pages (see Giant Lotus, Minotaur, and Cerberus), I have noticed some using percents and some not. It would be nice and be more appealing visually if they all used the same format. What says the community? L1ght5h0w (talk) 15:40, December 18, 2013 (UTC) : Agreed. Personally, I like it when the percentage is written. It isn't states anywhere else what unit (although obvious) is being used, so it would be easily accessable if we added a percantage symbol. - OppaiKun (talk) 04:23, December 20, 2013 (UTC) ::Making changes now. L1ght5h0w (talk) 15:34, December 20, 2013 (UTC) Normal Mode Steal-table vs. Hard Mode Steal-table I'm not exactly sure how this all works by now, but it seems like the loot tables changes depending on which mode it is. Of course, we should have a table for both normal and Hard mode... I suck at this wikia layout stuff. Would be awesome if someone could explain the how to knowledge needed to edit/submit pages - or point to where it has already been done. Edit: Actually, the beasts should have two info templates on their individual pages. One for normal mode and one for hard mode. Cheers - OppaiKun (talk) 10:42, December 19, 2013 (UTC) : Two template pages per beast sounds okay, but I think some of the data would end up duplicated. Would it be too much effort to modify the template to add hard mode stats (HP, ATK, MAG, SPD, Gold, SP)? I think the skills are the same. : We would also need a Hard mode Drops and Steals List. I toyed with the idea of putting them in the same list on Earth Slime, with a 'mode' column, but after further inspection I'm not a huge fan of it. : - DanTheGoodMan (talk) 11:49, December 19, 2013 (UTC) :: well its gonna be so hard to list the enemy info if we have 2 enemey templates per enemy cuz there is no info for hard mode(x) in the beastiry section of the game. At best we can just note down the hp but there is no way to know about spd, atk, mag, skils, resist and strong unless someone hacks it :: Apocalyp5e (talk) 10:22, December 20, 2013 (UTC) :::I had an idea for this while trying to create a template for enemy pages. | Item Name (H) | Rarity :::Which would return as: :::Item Name (H) :::With Item Name being a link to the item of course. This would quite possibly just be a temporary solution, however; in regards to two templates per page, I am of the opinion that this would get rather bulky. It might be better to have two separate Beastiaries, one for normal mode, and the other for hard mode. However I can also think of some benefits for just having two infoboxes on the same page, showing the differences. :::Either way, a few other things still need to be worked out in regards to enemy pages first. L1ght5h0w (talk) 15:12, December 20, 2013 (UTC) :::Just saw an example on Earth Slime of a drop table with another column on it named Mode. Recommend using this? L1ght5h0w (talk) 15:25, December 20, 2013 (UTC) ::::Giving credit where it is due, the change on Earth Slime was made by Danthegoodman. ::::L1ght5h0w (talk) 17:35, December 20, 2013 (UTC) Adding a template for enemies Currently, there is no template for enemy-pages added. To have the same layout for all enemy/beast/monster pages, we should have a standard enemy page template. I made a quick one which you can see below (if you intend to use this - remove all hashes '#'). Please comment on the setup and feel free to add what you think is missing. If the author of the wikia would be so kind to add this -or edit/make a better one - that would be very nice. I want to help on this wikia, but we need to get these things done first. Cheers everyone - OppaiKun (talk) 10:15, December 19, 2013 (UTC) # # # # # #' is to be replaced by the herein described information, or the chevrons are deleted.> # # # # Steals # # # # # # Drops # # # Locations # # # Notes/Trivia # # :Might I suggest using wiki comments for the parts in <> tags? For example: # :This way they only show up in edit mode and leave the page looking a bit cleaner, though incomplete. Just an idea. Also, the enemy template you have there is incomplete, and would actually be: # :However, if you look at the topic I started (Multiple Skills) on this page, there may be a new enemy template in the works, so I recommend holding off on this until that is resolved, to prevent people working over each other and undoing another person's work. With that said, I can have a look at a few of the enemy pages as they are and put together a template that would keep them looking as uniform as possible without changing the style much, unless someone else would like to have a go at it? L1ght5h0w (talk) 14:53, December 19, 2013 (UTC) :::I was just looking at the "Multiple Skills" when wikia informed me that someone else had updated the page :) I'll wait with working on filling out enemy info then. I wasn't aware of the wiki-comment function, but I'll definitely use it in the future when the chance arrises. Looking forward to helping make this page fullfilling! - OppaiKun (talk) 15:36, December 19, 2013 (UTC) Debate: Beast number in page title? It seems there's some disagreement whether to write the number of the beast in the title page or not. For examples, see: *King Slime *King Slime 2 *Gargantuan (2) *Rock (7) *Rock (8) In my humble opinion, it seems much more simplistic and cool to not have the beast number in the page title, but in the beast info template instead. In the example above where we have multiple forms of bosses, it seems more structured to list these in the name: "King Slime", "King Slime 2", "Rock" and "Rock 2". It should then be written consistently on the top of the page of second stage bosses, that they are in fact not a different beast/monster, but an evolved form of the boss of the same name. What do you guys think? Cheers - OppaiKun (talk) 10:56, December 19, 2013 (UTC) :While I agree it would look better, there are some enemies that have the same name but are different levels. Calling them " 2" wouldn't really seem to make much sense to me. For bosses however, it could work. I believe it was originally done this way to more easily avoid disambiguation pages, though I could be wrong. L1ght5h0w (talk) 14:44, December 19, 2013 (UTC) :::Ahh, we're having a slight misunderstanding here. First off, I wasn't aware the some normal enemies had the same name but were different levels. When I was talking about the numbering, it would be only for bosses that have multiple stages during one fight. Could you come with an example of an enemy that has different levels, depending on where you find it? - OppaiKun (talk) 15:38, December 19, 2013 (UTC) ::::Ah, I see. Well, one example would be the two Gargantuans (number 2 and number 31), another would be the Thiefs (number 38 and number 103). I do agree with you about the bosses though. Something like Frog King (1st Form), Frog King (2nd Form), or Frog King - 1st Form, etc, or even just Frog King (1), Frog King (2), or Frog King 1, Frog King 2 as you suggested would be good. L1ght5h0w (talk) 16:18, December 19, 2013 (UTC) :::::However there are also some characters that appear a few times as bosses and have multiple forms for each, so that would cause problems. I think we should use the current system of only adding the number if there are multiple instances of that enemy or boss. Rocketslime_1_1 (Message) 20:21,12/19/2013 (UTC) :::::::But that's the point, Rocketslime: there is no "current system". At least the ones editing the page haven't been coherent with it. I see monsters with their number in the title page, and I see bosses without, but with their stage number instead. It is for this reason that it was suggested that enemy numerals be removed from the title of the page, and instead written in the info box on the right. If anyone by chance is searching for a specific monster number, they can find it in the bestiary. Personally, I think this would look better. We would still have to figure out a way to distinguish different levels of monsters (see l1ght5h0w's example two paragraphs up). - OppaiKun (talk) 04:27, December 20, 2013 (UTC) :(Re-set indent) I mean the system I have been using and explained lightly in my post. No number is added unless there are multiple instances of that enemy or boss, and if there is then their number is added on to the article name. So if there is only one Earth Slime enemy type then it will be called "Earth Slime" however if there are two of an enemy (bosses too) then it would have the number, like "Bop (25)". Some bosses appear multiple times each with two forms so it would be easiest just to name them by their bestiary numbers. Rocketslime_1_1 (Message) 20:46,12/20/2013 (UTC) Regarding: Multiple Skills, Resistances, Drop/Steal Tables, and Enemy Page Template... I decided to group these together in order to be able to collaborate more easily, as each of these involves editing a monster's entry page layout/design. In order to help keep this talk page from getting cluttered, I am making an entry on a diary I am starting on This Page. I will update things there in full detail, as well as update here in smaller detail. I am currently working on documenting my changes this morning and will post when I have updated that page. L1ght5h0w (talk) 16:44, December 20, 2013 (UTC) :Updated the page. Now regarding this page. :I have changed the first 10 monster pages to use the new Enemy Page Template I created. Suggest checking them out. :In them I have added a third column on the drop and steal tables called Mode. I got this idea from seeing Danthegoodman's edit on the Earth Slime page. This column will tell whether the item is found in Normal or Hardcore mode. :I added a percent sign after the values of the element resistances to appear more like it does in game. :For changes regarding Multiple Skills, please Check Here. :L1ght5h0w (talk) 17:33, December 20, 2013 (UTC) ::One thing with the locations section. It may be better to use a bulleted list instead of a list with commas. Rocketslime_1_1 (Message) 20:39,12/20/2013 (UTC) I have also made a default skill image for enemy only skills for the skill system I made. You can see it at Spider King (83). Rocketslime_1_1 (Message) 21:02,12/20/2013 (UTC) I tested out the skill system on a copy of the Koohii (178) article (test is at User:Rocketslime_1_1/skill_system_test) to see how well it handles having a lot of skills. It does stick out a bit, but to fix that I could (a.) make the icons smaller (c.) add a collapsible box for the skill section on all enemy infoboxes with more than x number skills (c.) add a collapsible box for the skill section on all enemy infoboxes. What do you think I should do? Note that the system now works with more skills and can handle up to 13 skills on one enemy template. Rocketslime_1_1 (Message) 23:19,12/20/2013 (UTC) :::The test looks awesome. I am also in agreement with the bulleted list idea. I will change the enemy template page now. I'm thinking the best way would be to make the icons smaller. Should probably test it first like you did here, but I believe it should work fine. Very nice job. L1ght5h0w (talk) 17:59, December 21, 2013 (UTC) ::::I reduced the sizes of the images to 25px. Does that seem a bit better? I'd recommend having it at 25px or 30px, and smaller or bigger might be a bit too small or big. What do you think? (Just edit the number at Template:Skill to change it) Rocketslime_1_1 (Message) 02:59,12/22/2013 (UTC) :: Regarding the Drop/Steals rarity, I tried something new on the Evil Crab page. I noted how many items I had stolen from the total number of crabs encountered. This makes it easier for people to contribute to a monster's drop/steal rarity lists, and will hopefully make it more accurate. It does make it a little harder to read (compared to a percentage) but I think it's a worthy trade off. Danthegoodman (talk) 07:01, December 24, 2013 (UTC) :Since there are currently no objections to the new skill system I set up, and I believe it is ready to be added to pages since most to all skills are correctly logged in it. So I will start adding it to pages. Rocketslime_1_1 (Message) 11:01,1/3/2014 (UTC) ::I have updated all enemy pages to use the new skill system. All skills should be properly working, but if there are any skills that aren't working let me know and I will fix them. Now any changes can be made to the skill template and they will apply to all enemy pages. If there are any visual changes that should be made to the new skill system just let me know and I can do that. Rocketslime_1_1 (Message) 15:35,1/3/2014 (UTC) --Edits made on May 15, 2014 were made by David.massey.56829, which is I. However, my reason for stopping midway in finishing out the Hard Mode stats for enemies is due to discrepencies I've found with HP stats on here. The in-game, Hard Mode Bestiary has differing numbers in terms of the HP values I've seen for some bosses on here. So in this case, it seems the in-game bestiary may be inaccurate or the game may have updated since those values were posted. But for now I'm going to give it a rest until I can confirm which numbers are correct.